S10.14 |Replay: Spiritual Abuse, Church Hurt, and the True Heart of God
Have you ever been hurt by the church? You're not alone. A discussion on Church Hurt has been highly requested recently - so I am starting at the beginning with a replay of a Season 3 interview with Pastor Tim Woodcock
In this honest episode, we talk about spiritual abuse, religious manipulation, and what happens when the church doesn’t reflect the heart of Jesus. We unpack the pain of church hurt, the impact it has on our identity and faith, and how to begin healing without walking away from God.
If you’ve ever wrestled with authority in the church, questioned your place in the body, or felt abandoned by spiritual leaders, this conversation will remind you that your pain is valid — and it’s not the gospel. Jesus is still safe.
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Key Takeaways
Church hurt is real — but it’s not the gospel:
The wounds inflicted by church leadership or religious communities do not reflect the true heart of Jesus. Healing begins by separating the institution from the Savior.
Spiritual abuse distorts identity and worth:
When authority is misused, it can lead to internalized shame, confusion, and fear. Rebuilding identity in Christ is key to recovering from religious trauma
Boundaries are Biblical:
You can love Jesus and protect your peace. Setting healthy boundaries with spiritual leaders and church communities is not rebellion — it’s wisdom..
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Hello friends. We are doing a replay this week. I was talking to people on Instagram, church Hurt is something they wanna talk about. I. They have been hurt by the church. Maybe there's some confusion, maybe there's some bitterness, and I want us to go back to season three where I had a really good conversation with my pastor, pastor Tim Woodcock, all on church hurt.
This is just the starting of a conversation. We'll address it again in this season 10, but let's start here. I hope you enjoy it.
Hey friends. Welcome to Affirming Truths. I'm your friend and host, Carla Arches. This show is a safe place to share our struggles, grow and faith, and root our identity in Christ. My hope is that you'll leave each [00:01:00] episode feeling encouraged in your journey. Subscribe, see, don't miss an episode, and it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review.
I am so glad you're here. Let's get started. Hello friends. Welcome to our first bonus episode of season three. I am so. Excited but also nervous about this conversation because it is a big conversation. We are gonna talk church hurt. And I know I've heard from many of you guys that you have experienced this and how it has challenged your faith at times and we wanna have a conversation about that.
And I didn't wanna do it alone. So I have brought my personal pastor, pastor Tim Woodcock of Glad Tidings Burlington here in Ontario, Canada to have this conversation with me. Hello, pastor Tim. Hey, Carla. Great to be here. Thank you [00:02:00] so much for your time. So absolutely. Before we dive in, what's the 62nd bio on Pastor Tim?
Wow. 62nd bio. Um, I love Jesus. I love my wife. I love my children. Uh, they are my first. Congregation In a sense, I have my first sole responsibility to their hearts and to shepherd them well. Yes, I love basketball. I love the outdoors. Um, my whole life has been one that's been trialed by fire or sink or swim.
And so by the grace of God, he's opened up incredible opportunities for me to just love people and shepherd people and pastor people. And not because I have it all figured out, but because of his goodness and grace, he has led me along the journey. And, uh, I just try to posture myself in a way to hear from him and trust his leading in guidance in, in the whole process.
So I think that's about 60 seconds maybe. So, and all of that definitely comes out when you [00:03:00] are on the platform and we just so appreciate you. But we're gonna have a tough talk. Yes, we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk church hurt. And I can imagine your position as a pastor, that could be an even more difficult conversation to have because pastors are often put as the responsible ones when it comes to church hurt, and you have to bear a lot of the brunt in that.
So what has been your experience with church hurt? How do you see this play out? Yeah, that's, uh, man, that's a, a fully loaded question for sure. And, uh, just something that, you know, been probably. Something that I've been learning and growing in ever since I was a child. I grew up in a pastor's home and so I, uh, when you grow up as a pk, you see the good, bad, the ugly of the church, sometimes board, sometimes congregants, and you see a lot of things that most, uh, other kids growing up in the church maybe don't [00:04:00] necessarily see.
So at a young age, I was exposed to this, this dynamic of church hurt. Um, in that context, I usually saw it more from. Situation of maybe congregants hurting one another. Mm-hmm. But also congregants, hurting, uh, leadership and pastors. And so, uh, my father, uh, has pastored for, I believe over 40 years and, uh, has just been an integral man of God.
Uh, not a perfect man of God, but an integral man of God and tried his best to lead to the best of his abilities, but, you know, see things and there's disappointment that along the way. It does a number on, on pastors. And so I think my early years context was seeing it more from that perspective, but then over the years of myself just being involved in ministry, um, now over 20 years myself and just seeing that, uh, it's not just that way, but it's also the way of leadership hurting, uh, other people as well, that as pastors, we do hold a great.
Responsibility and [00:05:00] I, I think a higher responsibility, a higher accountability that would need to be held to. And, uh, there's been a lot of damage, unfortunately, done from leadership as well to congregants. And I think we're seeing that we're in a season where we're seeing that exposed a bit as well. And so I always say that church heard is definitely a two-way street.
Uh, it happens where, uh, within leadership, um. Misusing their leadership, misusing their power. Uh, but it happens just with congregants as well. Uh, misunderstandings or just, um, sometimes false expectations or unrealistic expectations. And so you've probably heard it said before, Carla, hurt people hurt people.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, I think that's true when it comes to church hurt, that we are a body of people that's full of brokenness. Uh, full of baggage that we all carry. We are not fully sanctified. We are being sanctified, and that involves pastors as well. So we're all working out our brokenness in real time and sometimes it leads to, uh, messiness in the church community.
So. [00:06:00] And I love that you called that out. We're all broken people. I think sometimes we expect when we're engaging with the church, we're engaging directly with God, and while he does work in and through the church, what I like to remind people is the pastor is not God. Right. The pastor is not the word of God.
You need to know the word yourself. Right. So you can measure it up. And you need to be faithful in your relationship to God. And I think sometimes we look for people or programs or staff to fill the role that God has designed uniquely for Jesus to fill in our life. And this is where we have this unmet expectations.
Hmm. So how much of church hurt does the pastor own, and how much do we own as members based on our own expectations? Yeah, I, um, you know, I'm not so sure if there's like an actual [00:07:00] accurate percentage that we can kind of, uh, apply here. Um, I, I just think that whenever you get a group of people together. Um, there's bound to be conflict.
Conflict is inevitable, and conflict sometimes comes from misunderstanding. Um, it comes from disagreements. It comes from, as you talked about, just false expectations. Sometimes, uh, we hold people on a pedestal, especially I would say in, in what's known as kind of western Christianity or North American Christianity that pastors.
Quickly become celebrities. Mm-hmm. Um, and maybe hold, uh, an unhealthy position within their church family. Um, and that can easily be taken advantage of. And, and so I don't know if there's a percentage, but I, I do think, um, we're in a season where things are being exposed and we're seeing a lot of exposure happened with, uh, leaders.
Um, and I feel like it's God's grace. Exposure is always God's grace. It's him bringing to the surface things that he wants to [00:08:00] deal with. We can humble ourselves and repent or we can double down in pride. And I, and I'm praying for the former, not the latter, that we would be, uh, people, especially as passionate and leaders that humble ourselves in the season and simply say, holy Spirit, search my heart.
If I'm doing anything in my leadership to lead to people's hurt or demise, or the massive wave of deconstruction that we're seeing that expose that in my heart and, and help me to repent and to turn the the other way and lead the way you want me to lead? Um. Sometimes people get elevated to positions of leadership that don't have the character integrity, uh, that they need, um, to be in those positions of leadership.
And we're seeing that sometimes people, um, I. Are very, uh, rooted in narcissism. And a lot of times I think leaders that get elevated quickly, uh, can also be 'cause of their charismatic personalities, can be narcissistic types, and that power goes through their head. And then we start to see examples of abuse, of power and [00:09:00] manipulation being taken advantage of, uh, by these leaders.
Um, and so I, I don't know if there's an actual percentage. I just think that, um, it happens on both ends. Mm-hmm. Um, sometimes unrealistic expectation with congregates, but a a lot of times, uh, abuse of power and spiritual abuse, uh, clerical abuse is, is a real thing. It's being exposed in the church today, and there's a little bit of a purging happening, actually, not a little bit, a huge purging happen and uh, I do think God's in it.
It's painful in the process, but I think he will have a pure church through the whole journey of it all. So, amen. So how do you, when you've been hurt by the church, and I know that some of my listeners have. Have experienced that and have faltering faith and, you know, questioning God's goodness. How do you, how would you counsel someone to move forward in faith and in God, and not be discouraged [00:10:00] in their walk because of the hurt that they've had from church?
How do you, how do you keep going forward? That's a great question. Um, I, I do think it's different for everyone, right? Like we're, we're all wired differently and we respond to things differently and we're, we're triggered by different things, right? That we, we all wrestle with. And, um, I know for me, um, I, I'm not easily offended.
That's something that, you know, my, my wife and I have journeyed together in and just making a conscious decision to assume the best about, the best about people. Um, not to look for all that is wrong within people. It's easier to find everything that's wrong within people. We are a society that's drawn towards negativity.
The media drives it. Uh, other avenues drive that. And so we just try to intentionally say we're going to choose to err on the side of. Optimism about people, but we're also going to hold a healthy tension that people are broken and they're going to make mistakes. And, [00:11:00] and in that brokenness, they probably don't, they probably don't mean as much harm as maybe it felt like or we experience.
Um, so we try to really posture our hearts in that way. But when offense does happen, because. It's inevitable. Um, we, we, we try to really one, take it before God and say, Lord, am I overreacting to this? Is this something that is I'm being triggered by? And if it is, help me understand what's causing that trigger.
Is it a past hurt? Is it an unrealistic expectation? Um, if it's not something I'm overreacting, then I, I try to really. Lord, help me in my heart towards this person to see what you see in them. And, um, to understand that all people have what theologians called the Imago Day. They are created in the image of God.
And so his very DNA is in them. So there's, there's good in every person. There's brokenness in every person, but there's also good. So I try to really search for the good in [00:12:00] people. Um, and then if it's a, a true offense, uh, that I feel like can't go, just, um, unresolved, then I, I try to model what, what Jesus talks about in Matthew 18.
I go and, Hey, can we talk? I, I wanna, uh, share my heart with you on something that, you know, we just encountered. Or I wanna share how I felt in that moment over something and just get off my chest and, and, um. It. Did I say anything that led to you saying that? Have I come across in any way? Uh, that has been misleading?
Um, because when you said this, it really, it really tore at me or it hurt me, or when you did this, it really caused me to think this way and just try to have open conversation and I. And pursue, uh, forgiveness and reconciliation in that conversation. Um, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes people respond and say, oh my goodness, I never meant that.
I, I'm so sorry. Other times they get defensive and they, they say you're overreacting. And I would say that happens with the other realm, you know, with leadership that sometimes [00:13:00] congregants come and model that Matthew 18 principle. And unfortunately, leaders and pastors can get easily defensive and, uh, on the.
On their guard because of it, um, throwing up their walls and so. I think once again, both sides. We just need to really posture our hearts to see the Imago day in one another, to see that all people are creating the image of God. Uh, assume the best about people. Understand they're broken. Every person will let us down in life.
You know, our, our children let us down and we deeply love our children. Mm-hmm. Our spouses love our, uh, let us down. And we deeply love our spouses. Right. Our parents let us down and we deeply love. Our parents. And so every relationship will let us down. Um, but how we respond to those let downs is what really matters.
So. Yeah. I love that. I was reading, um, earlier this week, I shared with you before our call that when you are committed to the church, it's not when you'll get hurt, it's, it's or it's not. If you'll get hurt, it's when you'll get hurt. [00:14:00] It's when, right. It's when. So. Knowing that these are human relationships and just like you disagree with your spouse or you disagree with your children, like you said, there's going to be disagreements in the church.
Um, and so often we do take that position of defense. No one wants to feel like. They've been wrong. No one wants to feel like they're the cause of someone else's hurt. And we really get stuck in our own pride. And so I love how you said it's that heart posture that we have to take and be willing to be humbled, um, by our missteps because we're not perfect.
We're not perfect just like the other people are. We're not perfect. We are equally capable of causing hurt as we are in being hurt. And sometimes we. Are so quick to point fingers and look in judgment towards others that we haven't taken the plank out of our, our own [00:15:00] eye. Right. Right. So, um, how do you separate hurt from an individual at church and from God himself?
Because so many people have put the two together that you see people leaving the church, not just their physical BU building, but leaving the church altogether. Um, sweeping general generalizations about right. All Christians, all church because of a hurt. How do you separate the hurt from an imperfect body?
Versus relationship with a perfect God. Yeah. I think that's one of the greatest challenges for people today, and I think it's honestly probably one of the greatest reasons that's leading to so much of deconstructionism today is that people are wrestling with not necessarily the [00:16:00] belief in God or a God or deity, or even Jesus.
They're wrestling with how he is often in their minds misrepresented how people who are supposed to reflect the goodness of God and the, the grace and compassion, the kindness of God, uh, 'cause sometimes be the most hypocritical, um, manipulative and often sadly abusive types. And, and we've seen that a lot lately.
And so I, I think that's a. That's a hard challenge. Um, but I think that's, that's the reason we have the scriptures is that the scriptures do not give us examples of perfect individuals. They tell the overwriting narrative of a perfect God working with. All kinds of imperfect individuals. Mm-hmm. Um, you're there every Sunday.
You hear me preach a lot. So, uh, we're in the book of Daniel right now, and I, I say over and over again that Daniel is not the hero though. He was pretty incredible. He did some awesome things. Um, but any, any character where we read about in the [00:17:00] Bible, they're not the hero. God's the hero. And so, um, the, the Bible is brutally honest about imperfect people that were called and set apart to represent God and yet failed miserably.
Look at King David, I mean King David, a man after God's own heart. It was set of him and, um, accomplished so much for God and on behalf of God, and yet failed miserably in his life. And so like terrible misrepresentation of God and, and some weak moments of his life. And so. Um, I, I think the scriptures give us that brutal reality that all human beings are flawed and broken.
And we'll let people down and misrepresent God. But the story of scripture is not about human beings perfection and their perfect representation of God. It's about a perfect God, continually pursuing the hearts of human beings. Hmm. He's the one who comes after us, right? Um, he's the one who goes looking for Adam in the garden.
Adam, where are you? He's the one who's in radical pursuit of the hearts of his [00:18:00] people, uh, to heal them and restore them. When we keep going back to the very thing that he called us out of the disciples going back to fishing after the the cross. Right. And he goes, Jesus goes looking for them. He finds them.
Mm-hmm. Right. So I think that's the good news of the gospel is if we have to. Uh, keep the gospel, the main thing. So how do we separate that, that man's best representation and God's goodness of faithfulness? Well, it's the gospel. It's the good news of Jesus is that he got what he did not deserve, uh, so that you and I can get what we don't deserve.
And that's his grace. Mm-hmm. And friends, that is your reminder that you have to know the gospel yourself. Mm-hmm. And you know that I say this over and over and over again. Friends, you have to know the word. You have to get into the word. Amen. Um, I know sometimes too, there's this prevalence lately of.
Wanting to feel [00:19:00] good. I go to church to feel good, and if it doesn't feel good, then I'm hurt by it. And I think that is such a misrepresentation of what the church is. The church is not where you go to feel good. Yes, God is loving. God is kind, but God is continuingly. Wanting to transform us to be more like him.
There's a pruning and a refining and conviction, and that does not feel good. And so, right. Yeah, like, let's be honest, it doesn't always feel good. God delivers it in love and he delivered it. Mm-hmm. Sometimes in love through the spoken words of our pastors or our elders or other people in congregation, and I think it's important for us to recognize that church is not just about feeling good, and if you're feeling convicted, then maybe you need to consider that your pastor's actually [00:20:00] doing the right.
Yeah. Conviction in love is not caused for hurt. It's caused for reflection, for prayer, for repentance, for turning away and looking at the face of Jesus and becoming more like him. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you bring up a good point there, Carla, that because I know a lot of people that, um, even some friends of mine that would say they were hurt by leaders, um, because a leader.
Said something to them that hurt them. And when I would open, have them open up about that, I would say, well, what did they say? I would sit there and sometimes go, you know, actually I think that what your leader or pastor said was rooted in love in the heart of a shepherd. 'cause they care for your wellbeing.
It, it may have convicted you and it may have been hurtful at the time, but, um. You hear me say this all the time. The gospel confronts and the gospel comforts. Mm-hmm. So when I preach [00:21:00] I, I want, and sometimes there's seasons upon us where we need more of that. There's seasons where we need more of God's grace and just understanding who we are as sons and daughters and his kingdom and walking that identity and just.
Receiving the love of the father. And then there's pruning seasons. And I, I kind of feel like in these last two years, we're kind of in that pruning season because things are being exposed and things are being uprooted, and there's been so much disruption. Um, but in that, like the goodness of God is that I.
Scriptures confront us. They confront our, our idolatry, um, our self idolatry. Mm-hmm. Our pride, our arrogance, and then the scriptures comfort us with the good news of the gospel. So, so it should do both. And so a lot of times I think church hurt can be connected to that too. When pastor said something I didn't like and, and, uh, I didn't feel good.
Um, and, and I understand sometimes they don't always say it perfectly. Heck, I don't say things perfectly all the time. But I think we gotta recover being okay with messy dialogue and messy conversations and, and try to hear the [00:22:00] heart behind what's being said as well. Yes. That can lead to a lot of, I think, healing in that regard as well.
So yeah, absolutely. Okay. So to kind of summarize what we've been talking about when it comes to Church, heart, and moving on from it, I think we really need to start with God, ask God to reveal in our heart what needs to be revealed. We need to operate with grace and forgiveness towards others, and we also have to check our expectations.
Are you looking for things in people that are, that they don't have the ability to provide and it's not their role to provide. Do you have anything else in closing that you would like to share on this? Yeah, so I, I, I do think we covered a lot in regards to church that can be, um. A healthy way resolve, which is, I think, uh, the majority of church hurt is stuff that can be resolved based on the condition of our heart, the posture of our heart.[00:23:00]
But I think we also have to be very, uh, honest in the season we're in that there, there's a lot of church hurt that is happening because of abuse of power and authority mm-hmm. By pastors and leaders and, and, and. I am one, I am a pastor and a leader, and so I, I hold that calling in high regard. Um, and I understand that at times, pastors, leaders could be misunderstood, but I, I have to al also acknowledge that there has been, and there is continuing to be abuse of power and authority by church leaders and pastors and.
So maybe for anyone here that has experienced that. Um, not that I can repent on behalf of all the pastors and leaders in the world, but I, my heart would just be, be to say, man, I'm so sorry. Um, because I think it, it's a very real thing that's out there. It's being exposed right now and, um. It's hard for me even watching it 'cause I know it just creates a, a skepticism amongst all leaders.
Um, the people [00:24:00] coming in from other churches where they've experienced hurt and abuse of power and, and manipulation. There's that skepticism even of me as a leader and, and I, I try to be very sensitive to that. And so there are times in church hurt. Where, um, where there's manipulation, abuse of power, clerical abuse, obviously anything in regards to sexual abuse, it is perfectly justifiable for people in the congregation to leave and not submit themselves to that type of authority.
Mm-hmm. That they're not in sin because they're leaving a church family that they love dearly, that they care about. Mm-hmm. But they see this as a clear abuse of power. And I think that needs to be said too. Yeah. Because once again, yes. Most of this church hurt, I think, or a lot of it can be resolved through, um, just community working it out like we've been talking about.
Yeah. But I think we, we also need to acknowledge there are many situations out there where, um, the best thing for someone to do is to get out of [00:25:00] that abusive situation and to confront it to the elders, to confront it to people and leadership. Um, but if nothing is changing to leave to get out of that because I, I know too many people that have been.
Um, manipulated to stay in those situations, especially women, to be honest. Yeah. Um, because their husbands won't leave and yet they feel like there's all kinds of abuse for them happening in these environments. Sometimes from the type of theology that's being taught, the oppression upon women, um, that the.
Taken advantage of women in those situations. And yet sometimes those women have been told to just stay and well, they need to, you know, um, just submit, almost submit Yeah. In in an unhealthy way. Yeah. To abuse of power. And it's like, no, they don't need to submit to abuse of power. And so I think we have to be very real about that too.
That though a lot of it can be resolved, I do think there are cases and situations. Where the best thing for people to do is just [00:26:00] remove themselves from that. And you're not disobeying God or walking in disobedience or rebellion because you're not submitting to abuse of power anymore. And so, and um, and I just say it's hard as it is, as for me as a pastor to see it.
And I never, I never sit here with a self righteous finger trying to point fingers at, well, this person fell and this person fell. And oh, how could they, I always say, holy Spirit, come and search my own heart. And see if there's any way in me where that could lead to that type of narcissism. So it's a humbling experience, but I also say bring it on, Lord.
Like we need that exposure to happen. 'cause the church needs to be purified and there's been too much abuse by leaders and pastors for far too long. And it needs to come down so that we can become the people of God that he's created us to be. So sorry I went on a little tangent there, but I No, I love that and I really appreciate, I thought was necessary to say it.
He saying that, um, I have not shared this on the podcast, but I was in such a church environment and I had to leave and it. [00:27:00] There was a lot of hurt and a lot of distrust. I even said on the podcast before we started, I'm nervous. Pastors make me nervous. I have this history of spiritual authority that was not healthy and it still triggers, um, a lot of response in me when it comes to talking with pastors and being around spiritual authority.
And I just wanna echo what you said, that it is okay to leave that church? Yes, but do not let it. Cause you to leave the loving arms of God, right? 'cause there is a difference. And can I just say that while the author of My Hurt came in the form of a church and a church system, the author of my comfort and restoration comes from the head.
Of the church, which is Jesus Christ. That's right. And he has been so gracious in healing me. He has been [00:28:00] so amazing in giving me that discernment. I needed to leave to begin with, like trust the Holy Spirit working in your life. If you have been having those hurts. Take them to God. He wants to heal you.
He is a God of restoration. That's right. He is a God of reconciliation and he wants to reconcile you back into the body. Not that church system that was oppressive or abusive right, but into the actual body of Christ, which doesn't have four walls, and just encourage you to. Find a community of believers because it's still important that we meet and we have community.
That's right. We have connection with believers. That's an important step in our faith in building up the body. Um, and I just love that you as a pastor, as someone one in authority said that, so thank you so much for that. So Well 'cause healing can't happen in isolation. No. As hard as it is to [00:29:00] reengage with community again.
And as I understand, it's very hard for some people 'cause the trauma is very real from some of their experiences. I don't think wholeness and healing can come unless they do learn to engage in healthy community. Mm-hmm. And, and learn to trust again. Yeah. That's the hardest part, right? Learn to trust.
Again, it doesn't happen easily, but I think it's. Doing that. So yeah, I just, uh, appreciate you, Carla. Appreciate everything you do and uh, your podcast. I just love what you're doing here and just the, um, the heart behind it, the spirit that you carry, uh, the openness and vulnerability that you carry and sharing about your struggles, but always pointing people back to Jesus.
I think that's what encouraged me so much. I love your husband a lot. Terry's one of my favorite people to play basketball with. Uh, 'cause he, he knows how to play the game. Yeah. So I always enjoy having Terry on my team. Uh, just, just great people honored to be, uh, your pastor and just love what the Lord is doing in your guys' lives.
So. Aw, thank you. And guys, if you want to hear the powerhouse that [00:30:00] Pastor Tim is when he preaches, you can find his sermons on YouTube under Glad Tidings Burlington. And I'll put that link in the show notes, but you definitely want to to check him notes. So thank you so much, pastor Tim. My privilege,
thanks for joining me today. I hope we're already friends on social media, but if we're not, come find me on Instagram at Carla Arges or at Affirming Truth. Can't wait to see you back here next week by Friends.
If you need guidance on how to practically work through this, book a free discovery call with me. As a Christian Mental Health Coach and Certified Trauma Practitioner, I integrate scripture, science, and somatics to help women heal and thrive—even in the face of trauma and mental illness.