S9.12 | Mental Health and Faith: Emma Breuer's Journey with OCD
Join Carla as she welcomes Emma Breuer, a school psychologist and host of the "Be Brave with Emma B" podcast. Emma opens up about her personal battles with obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), the intersection of faith and mental health, and her journey toward finding peace and purpose in Christ. Through this powerful conversation, listeners will uncover the strength found in vulnerability and the courage it takes to embrace one’s struggles. Listen in as Carla and Emma share heartfelt insights, practical advice, and faith-driven encouragement for anyone facing mental health challenges.
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Key Takeaways
Origins of Struggle and Faith:
Emma reveals the onset of her OCD, sharing childhood signs and the aggravation of her condition through trauma, including a significant car accident and her mother's addiction.
God's Presence in Hard Times:
Emma discusses recognizing "God’s fingerprints" or "winks" during her struggles with OCD, showcasing how faith became a beacon of hope and strength.
Navigating Faith and Mental Illness:
Both Carla and Emma dive into the complex relationship between faith and mental health, emphasizing the importance of therapy, medication, and recognizing God's role in the healing process.
Connect with Emma:
Emma Breuer is Jesus follower, school psychologist, wife, friend, and host of the podcast “Be Brave with Emma B.” She is passionate about sharing stories of bravery in order to help people overcome fear and anxiety, something she has personally struggled with. She wants you to know that no matter who you are, YOU ARE BRAVE.
Instagram: @bebravewithemmab
Facebook: Be Brave with Emma B
Connect With Carla:
Foundations to Healing—-> https://www.carlaarges.com/renewing-hope
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Inquire about 1:1 coaching ---> carlaagreswellness@gmail.com
Come hangout on IG with me @carlaarges
Check out the blog
Resources:
5 Steps to Building Resiliency
Affirming Truths Facebook Community
5 Tips for Overcoming a Negative Body Image
Who You Say I Am Biblical Affirmation Cards
TRANSCRIPT
Carla Arges [00:00:08]:
Hey, friends. Welcome to affirming truths. I'm your friend and host, Carla Arges. This show is a safe place to share our struggles, grow in faith, and root our identity in Christ. My hope is that you will leave each episode feeling encouraged in your journey. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review. I am so glad you're here.
Carla Arges [00:00:32]:
Let's get started. Hello, everyone. How is my affirming truth friends doing? I hope you're doing well today. I'm excited because we're gonna have a really good conversation with my Instagram friend, Emma Breyer. She is the host of Be Brave with Emma B podcast. She's a school psychologist. She loves Jesus, and it is just a real blessing for me to have her on the show today. Hi.
Emma Breuer [00:01:06]:
I'm so excited. Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Carla Arges [00:01:10]:
Well, thank you for being willing to come and talk, because what we're going to talk about is kind of vulnerable, and you're going to be sharing a part of yourself that a lot of people have a hard time sharing. And I have such a heart for you. So Emma is going to be sharing a little bit about her story with her journey with OCD, and my son has really bad OCD, and so I just have such an extra soft spot in my heart for those who suffer with that. And to see you thriving and accomplishing things and being brave in your life is just such an inspiration and I know will be an encouragement to everyone. So why don't we just start quickly with, like, who is Emma? Tell us who you are. Introduce yourself.
Emma Breuer [00:02:03]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for the sweet introduction. And I'm really excited to talk about this topic because it's something I'm super passionate about. But like you said, my name is Emma Breyer. I host a podcast that was really born out of my struggle with OCD. I don't think I would have started the podcast had I not struggled with OCD so much. So, again, that's just. Just the start of the story.
Emma Breuer [00:02:27]:
But, yeah, I mean, I. I would say, obviously, the most important thing is I am a follower of Jesus. Like, I. My faith has always been so, so important to me since I was very little. And, I mean, we talked very openly previously about the fact we both have had trauma in our past. I honestly don't think I would have gotten through some of the trauma I experienced had I not had that deepest rooted relationship with Jesus. And so, again, that's the biggest part of my story, but I have an amazing husband named Sam who's really helped me through my OCD journey, which has been super, super cool. I'm a dog and cat mama right now, and I just, again, I'm super passionate about mental health, actually, my, like, full time job.
Emma Breuer [00:03:14]:
I'm a school psychologist, so I work in a school and I help kids navigate their mental health. And then I'm also part of the process for helping make decisions about whether kids qualify for special education. So that's like my day job. But on the side, I really wanted to do something that incorporated not only my struggles with mental health, but also, like, to be able to incorporate my faith and how I've been able to navigate those two things together. So that was how the podcast got started. That's more like my passion project, but full time. I'm a school psychologist, so, yeah, that's a little bit about me.
Carla Arges [00:03:50]:
That's amazing. Why don't take us back to when you first started struggling and maybe you weren't even aware fully of what was happening. You just, you know, you started to recognize that you were struggling. What was that like?
Emma Breuer [00:04:10]:
Yeah, that's a really interesting question because if I had to, like, pinpoint it in my recent memory, I can, like, literally bring you back to the exact moment I had my, like, first really bad, intrusive thought. And it was December of 2021. My husband and I actually had just gotten over having Covid, and I just had this thought that I got, like, stuck on, and I won't, like, share the thought, but it was just. It got stuck, and it was relentless, and it was on loop, and I could not get out of this thought. And I tried everything. I prayed that the thought would go away. I listened, like, to sermons on, like, anxiety, and I actually listened to this really good sermon by Jenny Allen. And it was at the passion conference, and it was basically just about, like, admitting, like, when we're wrong.
Emma Breuer [00:05:04]:
And so I thought I had done something wrong. So I was like, I have to, like, confess something that I did that was wrong because that's why this thought won't go away. And it was just relentless. My husband and I even went on, like, a trip, and the thought, like, didn't leave me alone the whole trip. Like, I literally remember us swimming in the ocean and I just praying, like, God, like, just give me, like, 2 seconds of peace. Like, I just want 2 seconds of peace where this thought isn't, like, ringing in my head and it was so scary. And so I, like, can remember. And that thought, like, literally lasted, like, three months where it was just relentless.
Emma Breuer [00:05:39]:
Every single. Felt like every single second of my day was just, like, focused on this scary thought. But looking back, I can pinpoint things in my, like, childhood that I would, like, obsess about. It just wasn't to, like, the same level. So, for example, when I was little, I had to be completely honest about everything. And, like, obviously, honesty is super important, but I can remember if I wasn't, like, completely truthful, like, if I didn't tell everybody every single thought that popped into my head, I thought I was, like, lying, and then I would, like, obsess about that. Or there's just other really repetitive obsessive things. I did, like, dating back to, like, third grade, and so I think I always had, like, the almost, like, predisposition for obsessive compulsive disorder.
Emma Breuer [00:06:25]:
But it wasn't until, like, very recently that it was diagnosed and that, like, I understood, like, what was happening. So I would say that was the start of the journey. And, yeah, it's just kind of continued from then on.
Carla Arges [00:06:40]:
So, yeah, I'm a big believer that a lot of illness, both physical and mental, has its roots in trauma, and that while we may have a predisposition to something, our environment is what wakens it up. And that can be hard, as a mom, to say that when I have a son that has mental illness, knowing that part of his early start necessarily start. Well. Have you noticed any connection between any early childhood trauma to your OCD onset?
Emma Breuer [00:07:26]:
Yeah, totally. I mean, I am in complete agreement with you as far as, like, I think. I think we have these, like, natural, like, tendencies. Like, God makes us a certain way. But, like you said, I think certain events or certain things that happen to us can really, like, wake up almost like, those things that we're already kind of born with and are maybe, like, below the surface. Like. Like, when I explain it to people, we all have, like, a continuum of, like, anxiety. Some people, like, we've all got a little bit, but it's on a continuum.
Emma Breuer [00:07:58]:
So, like, more highly anxious people who are just naturally, like, you're born a little bit more anxious because you. You can see it in kids. You've got the kids that are, like, super, super reserved, and, like, you can kind of tell they're already a little bit nervous, and they were just born, born like that. And then there's other kids that are like, I'm not afraid of anything. So it's just. It's kind of like what you're born with. But then again, those events can really awaken, like, the trauma, the thing. The trauma and the mental illness.
Emma Breuer [00:08:25]:
So, completely in agreement with you on that. And for me, I was in a super bad car accident when I was in fifth grade, where I actually, like, you can't see it on, we're not on video, but I have a scar that goes from, like, the top of my head to the crease of my nose. And, um, it was a circumstance that was completely out of my control. Like, I wasn't driving the car. And so I think that. And then shortly after that, my mom struggled with addiction, which, again, was something completely outside of my control. Like, I wasn't making those choices for her. Those were.
Emma Breuer [00:09:02]:
That was something she was struggling with. And again, I believe addiction is a disease, and it's a form of mental illness. So, again, it was not really a lot of it wasn't within her control either. But, again, just the circumstances that was completely outside my control. And then back again in 2018, I was in another car accident where I actually had a brain injury. And so it's like, all these circumstances were, like, things I didn't control. And OCD is a lot of times, like, trying to control the uncontrollable. So I think it, like, almost reignited based out of all these things that had happened to me that I had no control over.
Emma Breuer [00:09:42]:
And the interesting thing was, it really flared up when I met my husband. Now, my husband is like, oh, he's amazing. Like, he is just such a. Like a rock for me. And he was so solid, and so just, like. Like, I knew what to expect from him. And so I almost feel like when we met, it finally gave my body permission to just, like, chill out and, like, relax, and. Which sounds so, like, opposite of what you'd expect.
Emma Breuer [00:10:16]:
But then I think my brain was so used to being in this chaotic state of trying to control things, then it almost, like, searched. And then all of a sudden, I was having these intrusive thoughts that kind of came out of left field. And so, again, totally in agreement with you on, like, I think a lot of it is rooted in trauma and trying to control the uncontrollable and then finally being in a restful state, but my body, like, wasn't used to that.
Carla Arges [00:10:42]:
So, yeah, I think even brain trauma has an impact on it, too. I know I've had six concussions, and my last concussion really flared up my bipolar, and so I think there's a tie there. You mentioned when you first started to get your intrusive thoughts that you were, like, praying about it and reading the Bible and went to the conferences and kind of felt like you were doing something wrong. I think that can often happen in the faith environment where the, the mental illness is really put on you as a spiritual issue to work through rather than just an illness. How did you navigate that, knowing the difference, that it wasn't a spiritual issue, but that, in fact, you were simply ill? How did you navigate that and break free of maybe that shame or condemnation that you initially were feeling?
Emma Breuer [00:11:48]:
Yeah, that is such a, such a good question. And I think it's been a process. Like, it wasn't like a, one day woke up and was like, oh, wait, no, this isn't, this doesn't have anything to do with my faith. This is just like a me being, having mental illness thing. I think it's been really understanding, like, God's truth and God, and, like, really what God says in the Bible. Like, he doesn't have, he doesn't say that, like, you're not going to experience mental illness or that mental illness is because of a lack of faith. Like, nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that. And honestly, like, his most, obviously, he loves everyone, but some of the people in the Bible that he had to do some of the most important work with, you can tell that they really deeply struggled with some things.
Emma Breuer [00:12:37]:
Now isn't labeled as mental illness. Absolutely not. But again, like, we can really, like, connect the dots and say, like, there's a really, really good chance that a lot of his chosen people to do things in the Bible probably wrestled with some mental illness. Now, I would say this wrestle with that started back in 2018 after my car accident, because it was so, again, it was this just, like, it was so, again, outside my control. And when I was in the accident, my, like, frontal lobe got hit, which is, again, a lot of that. The part of your brain that is responsible for, like, the anxiety and all those things. And so I was so angry really with God because, again, this happened outside of my control. And then all the things I was searching for to help, like, cure this were like, well, just give it over to God or just pray about it or just, and it was just, it made me so mad because I was, like, this event, like, was so outside my control.
Emma Breuer [00:13:39]:
And the doctors even told me, like, they're gonna, she's gonna really struggle probably for the next couple years with mental illness because of the brain injury. I didn't have any, like, cognitive limitations. It was just, again, that emotional part of my brain was just, like, all over the place. And so it just kind of began this, like, really, it began this relationship with God that I didn't even know could exist because I had to talk to him. I couldn't listen to outside voices. I couldn't listen to all these. This narrative that if I just prayed about it, that it would go away. And I had to figure out, like, okay, but who is, like, speaking truth? And I found some really, really great people who were able to put the two things together.
Emma Breuer [00:14:28]:
We're able to put, like, hey, mental illness is a thing, and our faith is absolutely a thing, and those two things can go together. Like, they're not separate. And a lack of belief does not have anything to do with why you're struggling right now. And I leaned on my pastor, I leaned on friends, I leaned on just people who I knew knew truth and also could help relate to the mental illness. So I would say that was like a journey. It wasn't a very quick fix, and it was really that relationship with God and him knowing my heart and knowing his heart and then really being able to, like, understand, like, hey, like, he's not mad at me for this. Like, he's not. This is not a lack of faith.
Emma Breuer [00:15:14]:
This is just something he's having me walk through. And now I can kind of see, like, had I not walked through this, I don't think I'd have the idea for my podcast. I don't think I'd be able to relate to the kids I work with as well. And so, I don't know. It's been a whole journey. But again, I'm so glad that I walked through that, because had it been, had it been just, oh, well, if you pray about it, then it'll go away. Had I just been like, oh, I'm not praying enough. I think that relationship, it could have really faltered.
Emma Breuer [00:15:50]:
But I think the great thing about relationship with God is he. He's okay if we have to wrestle with him for a little bit, because as long as we come back to him, he's going to help walk us through it. And I think it's really strengthened our relationship, which is the cool thing. And that's how our relationships on earth here are, too. It's like, the closest relationships you have aren't the ones that have always just been super easy. They're the ones where you've gotten through the hard times together.
Carla Arges [00:16:17]:
I've often said that my struggle is actually the tether that keeps me close to God, because if I didn't have my struggle, I'd be prone in my own prideful. Ways to do things my way. And there's almost been a safety in keeping me close to God and to his heart. Unless.
Emma Breuer [00:16:40]:
Absolutely, totally agree.
Carla Arges [00:16:42]:
How did you see God's fingerprints show up when you're struggling? Because I always say they're there. Sometimes we don't see them until retrospect, but God's fingerprints are always there. What are some ways that you've seen his fingerprints throughout this struggle and this journey?
Emma Breuer [00:17:00]:
Oh, man, I love God's fingerprints. That's such a sweet. I always say God winks. Like, when he's winking at you and saying, like, hey, I got you. I love the fingerprints. I just love all those different things. We're like, yep, he's here. And holy moments and moments where God is present are so evident today, but we really just have to keep our eyes open to it.
Emma Breuer [00:17:23]:
But, man, I mean, I can think of so many different ways. I can think of just, like, people I've been able to talk to and relate to because of the fact that I have Ocd. Like, I've just been able to have conversations with people that I would have never been able to have had I not walked through that, because it's just such a. Especially when I went to treatment. So, like, I talked very openly on my podcast about the fact that, like, while I was a school psychologist, I went and sought out mental health treatment and, like, intensive mental health treatment. And that, for people, has been very, like, eye opening because I think people assume, like, okay, well, you're a mental health provider. You don't need any help. Like, your brain's just perfect.
Emma Breuer [00:18:10]:
And I honestly almost think the, like, opposite is true. Like, people. People who have had their own struggles want to then help others because of the things that they've learned. And so I had to really, really take care of myself and, like, not, like, put myself first, but in a way, put myself first so that I could then continue caring for other people. And that, for people, was really eye opening because I think, especially when people meet me, like, I'm a super positive person. I love people. I'm super. I'm outgoing to a point.
Emma Breuer [00:18:43]:
I'm actually a little bit more introverted than I think people think. But I had this very, like, brave face. And then when people understood, like, hey, but she's actually, like, going through something, and she's seeking out help for that something she's going through, I think that was really helpful for a lot of people and for them to, like, understand that. Like, just because I had this, like, appearance of, like, having a really joyful attitude. Like, I was still walking through really hard things. I also think, again, God, just, like, planning this idea in my heart of starting the show where I ask people, what's the bravest thing that they've ever done? Because that just became a question on my heart. So I'd be in passing and I'd just ask people, like, what's the bravest thing you've ever done? And it would create this crazy conversation that a lot of times would lead back right to God and something that he had done in people's lives. And it was so cool.
Emma Breuer [00:19:40]:
And so, again, all those little moments were, like, either relating to people or becoming someone, that people were like, hey, she can still have a really positive outlook on life, even though really hard things are going on in her life. So I think it was just a mixture of that relatability to people and being able to really foster relationships, and then also just this idea for the podcast, which is something that I don't think I would have otherwise come up with. So I'm so I could think of, like a hundred different other ways, but those are just a couple different ways that I think God really showed up and kind of either had his fingerprints or winked at me and was like, hey, I got you, and I'm gonna use this.
Carla Arges [00:20:20]:
Yes, and he does use it, right? Like, I I always try to tell people not to invalidate their pain. Your pain is real, your experience is real, your trauma is real. But if we allow God into the spaces of it, he redeems it. And often he uses the very thing that the enemy wanted to use to break us, to bring purpose and meaning to our life. Because I often say the same thing, too. If I hadn't gone through my struggle, I wouldn't have my podcast today. I'm a christian mental health coach the same way that you're school psychologist. Having lived experience brings another level of expertise, because it's not just book knowledge that I bring, it's not just bible knowledge that I bring, but I bring lived experience.
Carla Arges [00:21:14]:
And so, Emma, your lived experience is going to be such a blessing, is such a blessing to people. What would you say to the person that is struggling, struggling to get their eyes off of their pain in order to see God winks in their life? How would you encourage them to focus or refocus their attention? Because it can be all consuming. You know, you walk through it. It can be all consuming.
Emma Breuer [00:21:50]:
Absolutely. And, yeah, that's such a good question, because, I mean, when you're in the thick of mental illness. And, like, some listeners probably completely can relate to what I'm talking about. Whether you've had, like, an anxiety attack or whether you're in a wave of depression, it's like, it's so much that it's so hard to see, like, any light through. And there are some times where I was, again, just really frustrated with God of, like, hey, I feel like I'm doing the right thing. Thing. Like, I'm in a profession where I feel like I'm able to, like, give back, and I'm. And I tried to live very, like, by the book, I guess.
Emma Breuer [00:22:30]:
Like, I tried to do the right thing all the time. So I just did not understand, like, why he was having me walk through this really hard season. And so, again, sometimes it was really hard to look up at him. So that's the first thing I'll say is, like, it was not perfect. It wasn't, like, through every OCD episode, which is what I call when it flares up really bad and I almost can't focus on anything else, I can't say that every single OCD flare up, I was able to just be like, oh, but, God, like, I can see you. I know you're there. Like, I'm just being completely honest because sometimes it was super, super dark, but. And there's a big but.
Emma Breuer [00:23:08]:
I knew because of that relationship I had with him that, like, it was. The dark season wasn't going to last forever. And I think this comes from the Book of John. Yeah, it comes from the Book of John. And it's, whoever believes in me shall not dwell in darkness. And the word dwell just means, like, you're not going to stay there forever. So that's. That's a really powerful verse that I've always kind of held true on.
Emma Breuer [00:23:33]:
My heart is like, you're not going to stay in darkness forever. And again, God's not going to be mad if you're in that dark for a little bit, but he wants you to approach him as soon as you can. And again, you're in that darkness, but try to find him, try to search for him. And, yeah, you might be in that dark place for a little while, but he's going to pull you out of it. And that's what I always had to remind myself. It's not going to stay dark forever. I also think that it's so, so important for people to get help and look for resources, because, yes, I believe that God can work miracles and God can heal and he can do. He can do everything he says.
Emma Breuer [00:24:18]:
He can. And he can do anything, but there's a reason that he made therapist. There's a reason that he equipped doctors to be able to have medication and to be able to distribute certain medication to help with various mental illnesses. And I feel like we can't see those two things as separate things. Like, God creates everything with a purpose. And so that's why we. It's so important when you're in those really, really dark places, like, please seek help. There's so many good resources out there right now, and it's as simple as googling, whether it's, like, psych.
Emma Breuer [00:24:55]:
I know psychology today has some list of really good therapists. I mean, I haven't used that myself. I use, like, a local agency, but there's local agencies you can contact for therapy that you can make. I know there's, like, telehealth now where you can talk to a psychiatrist. Like, there's just so many different avenues. And I don't want people to get stuck and think that they can't search for help because help is there. And, like, people want to be able to help you through this. So I think to get out of those really dark places, it does take getting treatment.
Emma Breuer [00:25:27]:
And again, for me, there was a season where the OCD had taken up so much of my life. I've talked a little bit about this, but truly, like, my wedding day, I had an OCD episode right before I walked down the aisle. And I'll share this one with you. I thought I had skin cancer because someone had pointed out something on my lip that, like, was like, kind of a deformed shape. And then I couldn't get out of my. Out of my brain for my entire wedding day. And that was kind of like the last straw for me. Same on my honeymoon.
Emma Breuer [00:25:59]:
Like, I got focused on something on my honeymoon and couldn't. I'm like, if I can't be present in these moments. And again, I have had a faith. At that time, I had a relationship with God. It wasn't like I didn't have one. And I talked to him about it, and I still needed to go get help and needed to go get treatment and needed to get the right treatment for the specific thing I was dealing with. And so I think, I hope that answers the question, but, like, God is always there, and he's going to pull you out of that dark place. But sometimes it might be seeking really practical help that he offers in this world.
Carla Arges [00:26:32]:
I often say we pray for healing, and God will send us a therapist or send us the medication, and for some reason, in the mental health space, we reject that, and we only want a supernatural touch. And in my experience, God's healing often comes through other resources and other people, and that is the answer to prayer. And it certainly has been a blessing in my own life, for sure. You are just such a remarkable young lady. I just, you know, want to speak over you right now that, you know, God has a hope and a future for you even beyond what you can imagine. And be brave with Emma, and your work as a school psychologist is just the beginning of how God wants to use you and empower you to make an impact for his kingdom here on earth. And so I want to encourage you to keep walking with God and keep using your voice because it is so needed in this space.
Emma Breuer [00:27:39]:
Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. That's like, yeah, that was something that my heart needed right now. So I'm just so appreciative of you, Carla, and I just. I'm appreciative of the work you're doing, because truly, like, the way you are normalizing the christian like values and how and the faith and the relationship with God in combination with what you've learned through your mental health coaching, like, just all the content and the beautiful things you're putting out in the world, I am very inspired by. So I'm just. I'm really thankful for you, as well. So thank you.
Carla Arges [00:28:13]:
Well, is there anything that you want to say before we wrap this up, as a word of encouragement to anyone listening?
Emma Breuer [00:28:21]:
Yeah, I would love to. I would just say, like, hey, one thing I've been hearing a lot lately, and I just recently created a little video about this is, like, a lot of people say, like, well, I'm just not a brave person. And to that, I would just say, like, yeah, you are. Whether you've navigated one challenge or 100, like, you're brave. And the fact that we're navigating this kind of crazy world we're in right now, that's brave. And whether it's one anxiety attack or just a little bout of anxiety or whether it's a season of depression, like, the fact that you're walking through that, that's brave. And so I think we also really need to reframe what is bravery, because bravery isn't jumping out of an airplane and skydiving. It's not climbing the tallest mountain.
Emma Breuer [00:29:07]:
It's like, the daily choices we make every single day to walk with God into each day, try to become a better version of ourselves so that we can show God's light to the world. Like, to me, that's bravery. And. And so, again, that's just kind of like the mission behind the podcast, and also just, like, normalizing that. A lot of people have walked through some really challenging things, and the fact that they're able to then share those things with the rest of the world, that's brave, too. So, again, that's kind of the mission behind the show, and I'm just really. Yeah. Thankful to you, Carla, for being able to have this conversation with you.
Emma Breuer [00:29:43]:
Today has been so cool. So, again, that's just a little word.
Carla Arges [00:29:46]:
Of encouragement, but that, yeah, thank you so much. And so we're going to share the link for be brave with Emma Beast. You guys definitely need to check out her podcast and support the work that she's doing. She's a fantastic young lady, and I want you to all go and encourage her and support her. Thank you so much for being here, Emma.
Emma Breuer [00:30:10]:
Thank you, Carla. I really appreciate you.
Carla Arges [00:30:18]:
Thanks for joining me today. I hope we're already friends on social media, but if we're not, come find me on Instagram. Arlaarges orffirmingtruth. Can't wait to see you back here next week. Bye, friends.